Are dolphins sufficiently self-aware to deserve more ethical treatment from humans?
Emory University neuroscientist Lori Marino will speak on the anatomical basis of dolphin intelligence at the American Association for the Advancement of Science conference (AAAS) in San Diego, on Sunday, Feb. 21 at 3:30 p.m.
"Many modern dolphin brains are significantly larger than our own and second in mass to the human brain when corrected for body size," Marino says.
A leading expert in the neuroanatomy of dolphins and whales, Marino will appear as part of a panel discussing these findings and their ethical and policy implications.
Some dolphin brains exhibit features correlated with complex intelligence, she says, including a large expanse of neocortical volume that is more convoluted than our own, extensive insular and cingulated regions, and highly differentiated cellular regions.
"Dolphins are sophisticated, self-aware, highly intelligent beings with individual personalities, autonomy and an inner life. They are vulnerable to tremendous suffering and psychological trauma," Marino says.
The growing industry of capturing and confining dolphins to perform in marine parks or to swim with tourists at resorts needs to be reconsidered, she says.
"Our current knowledge of dolphin brain complexity and intelligence suggests that these practices are potentially psychologically harmful to dolphins and present a misinformed picture of their natural intellectual capacities," Marino says.
Marino worked on a 2001 study that showed that dolphins can recognize themselves in a mirror – a finding that indicates self-awareness similar to that seen in higher primates and elephants.
| Share | | Randall Parker, 2010 February 18 11:31 PM Bioethics Humanity Definition |
How intelligent are we talking about? Similar capabilities to a 5-year old human brain? 5 year olds have some basic functions but can hardly do anything.
As long as 35 million humans die every year of a curable disease - aging - and there are 1 billion malnourished humans, the rights of animals don't seem like a high priority.
>"The growing industry of capturing and confining dolphins to perform in marine parks or to swim with tourists at resorts needs to be reconsidered, she says."
Why assume such dolphins are unhappy? They get safe places to live, three square, friends, and they are the stars of the show. Lots of people long to be in show business.
Note that I don't know whether "captive" dolphins are happy or not. I'm merely pointing out that assuming they are unhappy isn't justified. Persons alleging that they are need to provide evidence supporting their contention.
I know, let's grant PEOPLE rights and social status based on brain size! Who could object to that?
"I know, let's grant PEOPLE rights and social status based on brain size! Who could object to that?"
I think the argument is actually the opposite, anologous to "we shouldn't relegate people with down syndrome to compulsory service as dunk tank clowns, because even thought they aren't as intelligent as the average human, they are self-aware and have feelings." I think that argument would get plenty of support.
Xenophon,
I highly recommend that you see this movie:
http://www.thecovemovie.com/
My African grey parrot is so smart, that at times I really wonder why this intelligence issues keeps coming up with animals.
Even my parrot knows cause and effect. He can describe objects and is obviously self aware in his actions and responses. If I were to hit him for biting, it would be weeks before he'll trust me again. He gets over it just like any person would. He has feelings too, as any dog or cat does (albeit a parrots feelings are more lizard like than a mammal's-- different but similar).
Will I be asking to have a law passed to forbid the sale or ownership of African Grey Parrots because they are super smart-- not!
Hate to say it but reality sucks. You live further down the food chain you get what you get. Doesn't mean we can't be nice about it though-- have to agree on that point.
Dr. Temple Grandin is a personal hero of mine, but even she understood "reality" and gave others the ability to see that even "food" deserves respect.
Thanks,
Jim
"Are Dolphins Smart Enough To Deserve Better?"
One could ask the same question about Humans - to which the obvious answer would have to be - apparently not yet - at least not in sufficent numbers...
When Human socio-political hierarchies are finally reformed and restructured to put the most intellegent and empathetic members of society - into the highest echelons of power - then humane treatment of the less intelligent species will be simply a no brainer...
So let's put OUR house in order first, eh?
We would if we were consistent with our ethics but by in large humans tend to be fair weather ethicists.
What do you know? Michelle Dawson and Tyler Cowen wrote something on this subject last summer. I wonder when they started collaborating?
I thought the intelligence of dolphins was somewhat controversial. Are they dog-level intelligent, or chimp level intelligent, or higher?
Dan Marino seems to be a fairly smart Dolphin.
"we shouldn't relegate people with down syndrome to compulsory service as dunk tank clowns, because" they're not amphibious, and show no sign of enjoying being dropped into dunk tanks?
Indeed, we don't really know that dolphins dislike living in aquariums, and associating with humans. It might be worth trying to find out.
Dolphins are one of the three species known to commit lethal forays.
Avenist,
Lethal forays against their own species? There are surely more than 3 for that. Wolf packs will suddenly gang up and kill the leader for example.
Fa... loves... Pa!
"Lethal forays against their own species?"
Chimpanzees actually have wars and commit genocide against other groups of chimpanzees.
Speaking of that, we should take The Planet of the Apes as a warning, and kill off the dolphins now, while we can.
"When Human socio-political hierarchies are finally reformed and restructured to put the most intellegent [sic] and empathetic members of society - into the highest echelons of power"
Yeah, but first you have to guarantee that people with grandiose visions of socio-political realignment according to their own moralist and elitist Master Plan aren't allowed anywhere near the selection process.
If they're so smart, why do they keep getting caught in our nets?
schizuki wins!
Dolphin brains may be larger than human brains, but also consist primarily of glia, non-thinking parts meant to keep the neurons warm. Based on the thinking parts, Dolphins simply aren't thinkers.
Some years ago, I read several interviews with some dolphin trainers who candidly said that dolphins are not only stupid, but extremely mean. This cruelty has been observed in the wild where Dolphins have been observed not only killing their young but torturing them to death. However, this is probably not a function of intelligence, but simply instinct perceived as being cruelty.
I have a 20 yr old arctic wolf sleeping on my back deck right now, She is very intelligent and I guarantee she's way happier than she would be in the wild.Of course she would have been 6 or 7 years dead by now, not to mention she would never get 1 1/2 pounds of fresh meat every day.
My cats are "sophisticated, self-aware, highly intelligent beings with individual personalities, autonomy and an inner life." This professor's idea reeks of agendized "science". Either prove they're suffering ignominously or go away; merely saying "they've got feelings" is like listening to calibration tones: nothing new or interesting there.
@ Joe: Hot Heads
Correct.
This is Deja Vu all over again.
30-40 years ago, when the question was open, I contributed
to research on Dolphin Intelligence, which established that
they are dogs with fins; They have big brains to keep their
brains warm during long, deep dives in a cold sea.
Can you get past it, King Snooky?
Indeed, we don't really know that dolphins dislike living in aquariums, and associating with humans. It might be worth trying to find out.
I would agree with that. However, my guess is that they really don't. The problem is that by all indications so far, they are highly social, and live with a pod/pack/etc. with which they interact intimately, many for a lifetime. Thus, picking up one here, one there, and one somewhere else, would be somewhat like doing the same with humans. You might get someone from Africa, Asia, Europe, and America, throw them together in a very confined space, exhibit them to being gawked at, and then let them live out their lives that way.
I hate to see myself going the way of PETA, but I am more and more questioning the keeping of animals with the highest brain functions in captivity. Right now, I would draw the line at Elephants, Great Apes (Hominidae), and the highest marine mammals, esp. Dolphins.
Some years ago, some of the performing dolphins at Marineland in Florida managed to escape. The were found and recaptured in a nearby cove. They were discovered there because they were loudly running through their repertoir of tricks, expecting the guy with the bucket of fish to appear and reward them. Really smart, huh?
About as smart as people who light up a cigarette every time they get in the car while knowing that smoking will make them look older and die younger. Conditioning is conditioning. People get conditioned too.
We should move beyond concepts of intelligence that implicitly compare to humans. Much of dolphin intelligence is consumed in signal analysis that humans can't do without the aid of computers. Interspecies intelligence is hard. In humans intelligence is more related to brain surface area than mass, with small wrinkled brains having significantly greater capacity than larger smooth brains. Even between men and women, the linkage between brain halves is significantly different, with characteristic different thinking styles between the sexes. Women obsess over problems, providing compensation for physically smaller brains. Women, Mathmaticians, and Musicians have closely linked brain halves, providing different ways to use the brain.
I think the point is more than worrying about confining dolphins, we shouldn't be doing things like this: http://www.donkeylicious.com/2009/08/annual-dolphin-slaughter-in-taji-japan.html
"The fishermen use a big net to trap the dolphins and spear a few of them to reduce the likelihood that others will escape (dolphins don't abandon wounded family members). Then they hoist the dolphins out of the water with cranes, drag them along the road to the slaughterhouse with trucks, and hack their throats open with machetes to kill them."
> 5 year olds have some basic functions but can hardly do anything
That's not true. I learned to read at the age of 4. Don't base your beliefs on your personal experience.
> Are dolphins sufficiently self-aware to deserve more ethical treatment from humans?
Why and how is self-awareness related to moral standing?
Dolphins understand Human Sign language perfectly and are smart. They can think for themselves are are perfectly aware of what happens around them. They can understand Sign Language but the thing is, they have no hands to use Sign Language so there's no way for them to communicate with us. If they had hands, they probably would have been the aquatic opposite of humans.
And besides, when I was five, I knew how to talk, read, draw, listen, play, walk, run, and many other things.
"Capturing and confining dolphins to perform in marine parks or to swim with tourists at resorts needs to be reconsidered, she says."
By her own logic, why would they not also deserve protection from the depredations of brain anatomists?
Oh, and thanks for all the fish!
Cetaceans use sound (sonar) as their primary sense as vision is limited in the ocean. I've thought for a long time that a dolphin or whale in a concrete pool must be like a human confined in a house of mirrors with bright lights on all the time. Dolphins in captivity may well be dumb and mean - take a look at our human prison population....
Mirrors? Come on. The capcity for self deceit is the only true marker of sentience. When dolphins start writing bad short stories and wanting to become computer game designers when everybody knows they're going to end up crunching code at an insurance company, THEN I'll believe they're self-aware.
tehag said at February 21, 2010 2:51 AM:
> Are dolphins sufficiently self-aware to deserve more ethical treatment from humans?
Why and how is self-awareness related to moral standing?
You cannot be aware of morality if you are not aware of self and other. That is how self awareness is related to moral standing. How your brain processes your sensory data is also not an indicator of advancement. We cannot see with sound waves as bats do, yet we are far more advanced as a species. I suspect that dolphins, like dogs, are self aware and do what they can to advance their individual self interests. But that does not make they worthy of being treated as "people". Humans will treat animals as we feel the need. When fed and comfortable we play with them (including far lower animal species like snakes and turtles), when hungry we eat them. That is the food chain.
tehag Why and how is self-awareness related to moral standing?
Rights theorists think to have a right to thing you need a desire for that thing, at least as long as it doesn't conflict with certain other basic desires. One such desire is to exist or to continue to exist in the future, and it is thought that this is a sophisticated thought process needing self awareness. Sentience doesn't give that right as it is only a desire not to feel pain or suffer, that is why most animals don't have a right to life by this account.
ok im doing a project on dolphins and i was wondering if you ppl can help me.....
i need 2 kno wht makes dolphins so smart.....
i already kno tht their brains r why their so smart....
but do u kno if there is any thing else tht is wht their so smart?????
if so plz e-mail me at lovesong098765@aim.com
thanx
"For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much - the wheel, New York, wars and so on - whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man - for precisely the same reasons."
- The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy
I don't know about the dolphins, but the orcas strike back.
Since we're anthropomorphizing, imagine a dimly self-aware person with an IQ of 40 who occasionally likes to beat young children to death. What sort of "ethical treatment" would be appropriate?